query-2a3cc400c7c0fbf41a26c126326b3457
Detailed lists of monuments in PompeiiNotable?Hi all, 09:52, 15 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (Nvitucci, which already exists as an item)? Regio I degli scavi archeologici di Pompei location), but many buildings are just "houses" or "shops" with no further specification and obviously no wikilinks. Such elements though do have references to external sites (although not to the official site) and are included in the WLM lists. Can they be inserted as items in Wikidata along with their WLM IDs and statements about their location (e.g. hereI am working on the migration of Italian WLM lists to Wikidata and I have a question about notability. We have detailed lists of all the buildings in Pompeii (e.g. 22:33, 15 September 2016 (UTC) Jura--- Entries in monuments lists are fine. 09:11, 21 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (NvitucciNot all of them have links to images in Commons, so probably (1) does not apply (yet). They have indeed external references as Andy confirmed. 10:52, 21 September 2016 (UTC) Andy's edits; Talk to Andy); Pigsonthewing (Andy MabbettI refer you to the example picture, above. 11:16, 20 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (ChristianKlOkay, then it might not fall under (1) but there still (3). Being able to state what object a file represents is a structual need. 20:10, 17 September 2016 (UTC) Andy's edits; Talk to Andy); Pigsonthewing (Andy Mabbett? 1. It contains at least one valid sitelink to a page on... Wikimedia Commons. To be valid, a link must not be a... file... which says the criterionWould that be 18:47, 17 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (ChristianKlI think that's what the sitelink criteria is about. When we want Wikidata - Commons integration there's no reason to set any policy barriers that make that integration harder. 13:44, 16 September 2016 (UTC) Andy's edits; Talk to Andy); Pigsonthewing (Andy Mabbett Are you sure about that? "notability policy"If a file in commons shows a picture of X, then there's a valid sitelink to Commons and it's notable under (1) and (3) of the 17:25, 15 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (ChristianKl. Supporting WLM is also a structural need under (3). There are likely also some serious&reliable sources from Google Maps, Bing Maps, to various documents in city planning that should make buildings notable under (2). notability policyIf a file in commons shows a picture of X, then there's a valid sitelink to Commons and it's notable under (1) and (3) of the 15:47, 15 September 2016 (UTC) Andy's edits; Talk to Andy); Pigsonthewing (Andy MabbettThey are each well documented in external sources, so eminently notable. Go ahead. 13:48, 21 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (Nvitucci. If it looks like making sense, I'll proceed with the creation of all the other items. hereI created an example 18:36, 23 September 2016 (UTC) Andy's edits; Talk to Andy); Pigsonthewing (Andy Mabbett Indeed it would not be; which is why I did not suggest doing anything like that. "Not sure if it's a good idea to add some random computed text as English label." 07:25, 23 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (NvitucciI can't find the second one, but yes, this might happen - that's why I added the "I.1.1" to the label as well (even more useful when you want to tell a generic "Shop" apart from another one). 07:19, 23 September 2016 (UTC) Jura--- The lists I found have two, probably adjacent lots named after Epagatus. 07:14, 23 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (NvitucciYes, thing is that in some cases (e.g. "Bottega" or "Ingresso" without other details) it is easy to automatically translate the label to English (e.g. to "Shop" and "Entrance" respectively), while other cases might need to be dealt with manually. By the way, what do you mean with "there are two entries"? 05:51, 23 September 2016 (UTC) Jura--- Not sure if it's a good idea to add some random computed text as English label. I think the Italian one should do. There do seem to be two entries for "Caupona di Epagatus". 20:57, 22 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (NvitucciIf you mean that "I.1.1" is computable then yes, it is: I did it for the Italian label in the same way. I'm not aware of an item for the catalogue you have linked; a few days ago I searched for references of such numbering system in an official catalogue, but I haven't found any. Since the lists are basically built using this website (which is the "external site" I mentioned in the first post) as a source, if it's deemed "good enough" the catalogue item can be created and used. 20:33, 22 September 2016 (UTC) Andy's edits; Talk to Andy); Pigsonthewing (Andy Mabbett - do we have an item for that? [7] qualifier, for the catalogue described at (P972)catalog , which needs a better (P528)catalog code . That should be computable. It can be changed to an alias when a better label is available. I've also added "I.1.1" as a [6]I've added an English label, "Pompeii I.1.1", based on 05:51, 23 September 2016 (UTC) Jura--- might not match the Italian one. If in doubt, use Italian only ;) Q26971668The English label of 17:18, 22 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (Nvitucci is used, but this (single "houses" of Pompeii ruins) is a more special case. Anyway I think that there is a description problem for Q26971668: "Italian cultural property" would be probably better as a label since it is meant as an item of the cultural heritage, not necessarily a place. (P2186)Wiki Loves Monuments ID is recommended when (P1435)heritage designation I see what you mean and actually I agree. The presence of 16:23, 22 September 2016 (UTC) Jura--- If it's only a component of an "Italian national heritage site", I wouldn't add Q26971668 in P1435 (or p31). "Part of" seems to be the way to link it to the site, but maybe a more accurate statement about its status can be made. 21:13, 24 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (Izno: Indeed. --TomT0m@ 10:55, 24 September 2016 (UTC) pagetalk / TomT0m author . just to clarify, no opposition to that This is acknowledging that we assimilate any heritage status item to the class of all monuments/sites that have this status. Is that your intent ? this discussion is starting to be really messy ...: Izno@ 18:55, 23 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (IznoA) this keeps track of all the "instance of" look-alikes (which may or may not be suitable for deprecation--I'll suggest that in the majority case, they are not suitable, just so you know the intent of that statement) and B) indicates to data users (internal or external) that they can use the phrases synonymously. -- 17:43, 23 September 2016 (UTC) Andy's edits; Talk to Andy); Pigsonthewing (Andy Mabbett. User:Izno explanation - by withoutI've been reverted - 20:57, 22 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (Nvitucci (or rdf:type) are specialized. (P31)instance of I think it's a good idea. Although I get the reason why the subproperty claim was introduced, I always find it strange when properties such as 20:20, 22 September 2016 (UTC) Andy's edits; Talk to Andy); Pigsonthewing (Andy Mabbett. (P1435)heritage designation from (P31)instance of I've removed subproperty of 21:11, 22 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (Nvitucci: Sorry, I think now I get it. You were referring to the claim itself, not to its usage; I agree that it is (was) weird. TomT0m@ 19:08, 22 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (Nvitucci and it is not to be used with classes of monuments (say, castles and churches). (P2186)Wiki Loves Monuments ID : I'm not sure what you mean. The use of this subproperty is recommended with the use of TomT0m@ 18:12, 22 September 2016 (UTC) pagetalk / TomT0m author : Not sure this subproperty claim is a good idea. As far as I know, the tools that detects the subclasses does not use this, first thing, and second thing : are all statuses classes of monuments ? Nvitucci@ 16:17, 22 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (Nvitucci (e.g. castle, church, fountain etc.) are less easy to assign automatically, so they can be added afterwards in some cases? (P31)instance of " to each item from WLM lists; more specific classes for Italian national heritage site (P1435)heritage designation " has been added, which is fine and makes sense for Pompeii. So, it looks sensible to add "ruins (P31)instance of . I saw that "(P31)instance of is a subproperty of (P1435)heritage designation Sure, I mentioned it because 14:50, 22 September 2016 (UTC) Andy's edits; Talk to Andy); Pigsonthewing (Andy Mabbett. as well shouldn't be used (P1435)heritage designation . That's not to say (P279)subclass of or (P31)instance of should have either Everything 10:37, 22 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (Nvitucci: what do you think about it? here, but I had some doubts that I mentioned (P31)instance of that could be used in place of (P1435)heritage designation There is also a more specific property, namely 17:06, 21 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (Nvitucci of an Italian cultural heritage item as well, but as for English labels and descriptions it will not be easy to do automatically (at least as a "first round"); same goes for qualifiers. As for coordinates, we don't have any at the moment (some will most probably be added later). (P31)instance of Yes, I'll add a 14:34, 21 September 2016 (UTC) Andy's edits; Talk to Andy); Pigsonthewing (Andy Mabbett - you could create an item specially, then use, say, "instance of ruin at Pompeii". If possible, please also add an English-language label and description - that will make it more likely that people will translate into other languages. Can you include precise coordinates? You should also be able to add (say) "significant event - burial" with date qualifier. It would be worth waiting a day or two for other suggestions, before proceeding,. (P31)instance of : It should have Nvitucci@Here is a reference of what a Pompeii item should have according to the discussion so far; I will edit this should there be any changes, then when there is agreement I'll proceed to the creation of all the items using it as a guideline. )(Q27055447)catalogue of Pompeii buildings (P972)catalog (with qualifier x.y.z (P528)catalog code the ID (P2186)Wiki Loves Monuments ID (Q26971668)Italian national heritage (P1435)heritage designation (Q109607)ruins (P31)instance of Insula x della Regio y (P361)part of (Q43332)Pompeii (P276)location (Q36471)Pompei (P131)located in the administrative territorial entity (Q38)Italy (P17)country .Pompeii x.y.zAn Italian and an English aliases An English label (when the Italian label can be translated automatically) built like the Italian one. ).insula and the second number is the regio (e.g. "I.1.1", where the first Roman number is the x.y.zAn Italian label with the name of the building (e.g. "Caupona di Epagatus", "Bottega", "Ingresso" etc.) and its number . (Q19960422)Wiki Loves Monuments Italia (P143)imported from Wikimedia project The reference for these claims should be 08:00, 23 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (Nvitucci20:44, 24 September 2016 (UTC) Andy's edits; Talk to Andy); Pigsonthewing (Andy MabbettDate and cause of destructions are surely common to them all? I'm not sure if that's true of the excavations, hence "if possible". 14:45, 24 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (Nvitucci claim). Surely this can be done manually (or by gathering such information with other methods). instance-of ruinsThis information is not included into the lists. I am talking about claims that can be inserted using the WLM lists as a source plus some "common knowledge" (e.g. the 18:46, 23 September 2016 (UTC) Andy's edits; Talk to Andy); Pigsonthewing (Andy Mabbett. (Q26961007)Caupona of Epagatus (I.1.1) You should be able to add the date of destruction; and its cause. Also, if possible the "significant event"="excavation";"point in time"=[date]. I've done that on your example, 19:36, 23 September 2016 (UTC) Molarus Maybe they could be inserted into WD too? --http://pompeiiinpictures.com/pompeiiinpictures/R1/1%2013%2002.htm which will be the new value. I have seen this catalog has pages like http://pompeiiinpictures.comAbout catalog code: The qualifier is "catalog" (P972) and the value is "Pompeji". As far as I have understood, a new item should be created for the webpage 08:40, 30 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (Nvitucci and already used it in the Caupona of Epagatus item. Any suggestions are welcome. this catalogueI created 15:29, 29 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (Nvitucci: Yes, I can do that. Can you suggest a "good" catalogue item to use as an example? Pigsonthewing@ and add the number in the label only in such cases, and not do that otherwise.try as an alias can be a good idea. I have added the number in the label because in many cases the building is described as "Shop" or "House without name", so there would be a series of items called just "Shop" otherwise. I could "Pompeii x.y.z": Actually having Molarus@ 20:44, 24 September 2016 (UTC) Andy's edits; Talk to Andy); Pigsonthewing (Andy MabbettWe can create an item for the catalogue now, and add the name and author, etc, later. 19:03, 24 September 2016 (UTC) Molarus), which a user has coded. It is available in many wikipedias. --User:Magnus Manske/test1 (example at Template:Wikidata list at the bottom the number "HGW24" outsides the gates of Pompeii. The author of this list seems to be a trusted editor. I have thought about getting all this items with SPARQL and maybe P361 "Insula x della Regio y" could be used for that. We will get soon code to print the content of items as lists into Wikipedia. Maybe it could be done this way. PS: We already have de:Liste_von_Gebäuden_in_PompejiMaybe it is enough if the number is in the label "Pompeii VI.15.1" or in the alias name "I.1.1". Are you sure it would not be better to say "Pompeii I.1.1" in the alias name? The reason is that I can search for "Pompeii I.1.1" and it does not matter if it is written in the label or in the alias name, I will find that item. You can check that with searching for "Casa dei Vettii" and "Pompeii VI.15.1". You should be able to find the item with both ways. By the way, I have found at this list 14:45, 24 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (NvitucciYes, that's what I was saying a few messages ago. I've looked for an official list using this numbering system but I couldn't find any. I will try and ask around. So this means we can't use a catalog right now, or can we? 20:41, 23 September 2016 (UTC) Molarus (Pompeii VI.15.1), a system different to "Pompeii I.1.1". There has to be a connection between both and I don´t know if that should be done with the alias names. --it:Casa dei Vettii? They have changed sometimes too. There are wikipedia articles like it:Regio I degli scavi archeologici di Pompei. I could not find on the internet how that "catalogue" is called. The Information about "Changes and renumbering" is interesting too. Maybe there should be a qualifier only if there is more then one number. What is with names, for example the ones at en:Giuseppe Fiorelli it says: "Pompeii has been divided up into Regions or Regio by the archaeologists, based on a methodology devised by Fiorelli in the 1860s." He is this one: HereIt seems you are right. 19:56, 23 September 2016 (UTC) Andy's edits; Talk to Andy); Pigsonthewing (Andy Mabbett the catalogue, but is not the source of it. usesI believe that pompeiiinpictures.com 21:02, 29 September 2016 (UTC) MolarusBy the way, do you have already thought about how to do that? There might be 2000 items to create and I think you want to insert those items into the lists at it:WP. All that can´t be done by hand, it would last many months. --08:00, 30 September 2016 (UTC)) talk (Nvitucci. In fact I am going to do it in a few minutes for the whole Insula 1 from Regio I as a new and more complete example; if that is ok, I will do it for all the >2000 items. automaticallyYes, and that is why I always asked about pieces of information that can be added Here is a query to get all the buildings and entrances from regio I (at the moment limited to insulae 1 and 22 for testing purposes):
Use at
- https://query.wikidata.org/sparql
PREFIX wdt: <http://www.wikidata.org/prop/direct/>
PREFIX wd: <http://www.wikidata.org/entity/>
PREFIX rdfs: <http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#>
SELECT ?q ?label ?insula
WHERE {
?q wdt:P361/wdt:P361 wd:Q3931883;
wdt:P361/rdfs:label ?insula;
rdfs:label ?label .
FILTER (LANG(?label) = "it" && LANG(?insula) = "it")
}